See below the ====== for additional comments with "request" to be included with Sentence (15), which is a comment from 18 May, 2011 08:12 -
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1 2012 WEB stephenjaygould.org II., is supposed to be the basis of government in Connecticut; and I request any gentleman to point out a single clause in that charter, which authorized the
2 2012 WEB theblaze.com LET YOU KNOW THAT I AGREED WITH YOU IN PRAYER before Our Father and I request the other believers that are following do the same. He is our only
3 2012 WEB slog.thestranger.com but the kids should not have that treatment at a public school. # I request that you reissue these school IDs and apologize for failing to adequately protect, respect
4 2012 WEB depts.washington.edu orders, and insurance companies for billing purposes. # 5. How can I request a review of my medical record? # Contact your clinic/provider to set-up time to
5 2012 WEB depts.washington.edu will be asked to sign a written authorization. # 6. How do I request a personal copy of my medical record? # Patients can request a personal copy
6 2012 WEB depts.washington.edu are referred to as " protected records ". # 7. How do I request a transfer of my medical record to another provider or facility? # An Authorization
7 2012 WEB ...ientificamerican.com cycle, we could not provide any sort of comfort to her. So I request the relevant authorities of Bangladesh to form a designated palliative care team in every hospital
8 2012 WEB intgovforum.org So I had Simon QOBO from south Africa. Simon, please, can I request that people stand up rather fast, quickly, so that the mikes can get
9 2012 WEB intgovforum.org meeting. I have Tariq Badsha, followed by Mr. David olive. May I request people, I think it's going to be easier if people send slips.
10 2012 WEB intgovforum.org . I understand that Brazil is in a position to announce dates. May I request somebody from Brazil, if they would be willing to announce -- indicate the dates
11 2012 WEB ...eburningplatform.com both the lenders attorney &; the court for record of the request. Should I request the CEO's name and certify the QWR to him/her as well? # Our
12 2012 WEB ...eburningplatform.com We can take this one step at a time... # Curt " Should I request the CEO's name and certify the QWR to him/her as well? " #
13 2012 WEB espn.go.com a 10 or a 9. To put this stereotype to rest, may I request you increase your usage of 1. Stanford or 2. Stanford in your conference
14 2012 WEB smithsonianmag.com published two years earlier. Is it possible to correct this? # May I request the citation for the Journal of Environmental Management that is quoted in this article (
15 2012 WEB aviewfromthecave.com determine if the name under the comments is legitimate as quickly as possible. I request people to verify via email in order to try to avoid such situations and hope
16 2012 WEB studentaid.ed.gov disability. For more information, contact your loan servicer. How do I request a deferment? # Most deferments are not automatic, and you will likely need
17 2012 WEB studentaid.ed.gov subsidized and unsubsidized loans (including all PLUS loans). How do I request a forbearance? What happens to the interest on my loan during forbearance?
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Updates (EST):
2:48 PM - LM responds to IB's request for clarification and IB replies
4:17 PM - More between IB and LM
4:49 PM - LM replies to IB
9:30 AM May 15 - Louise Mushikiwabo has begun to protect her tweets.
4:19 PM May 15 - Ian Birrell writes an article about the exchange in for the Guardian. In the comments section a user under the name PaulKagame writes
9:30 AM May 15 - Louise Mushikiwabo has begun to protect her tweets.
4:19 PM May 15 - Ian Birrell writes an article about the exchange in for the Guardian. In the comments section a user under the name PaulKagame writes
Labels: Ian Birrell, kagame, Rwanda, twitter 
80 comments:
thanks for sharing, i'm very sure international communities working in conjunction with NGOs, reporters and some organization (biz) want to lock Africa into a war zone raising issues to keep us fighting for their own benefits.
Thanks for the comment, but I have to disagree. Maybe I am naive here in thinking that people to not intend on keeping Africa in war zone, but I cannot accept that as a motivation. However, I am interested in understanding more about your opinion. Would love for you to expand upon it. here in thinking that people to not intend on keeping Africa in war zone, but I cannot accept that as a motivation. However, I am interested in understanding more about your opinion. Would love for you to expand upon it.
This is awesome. At last, the possibility to get inside the heads of our African Heads of state.
Once again thanks for sharing the full interview if i may say so.
Normal people in UK, US, Europe look at all the bad things happening in Africa and they are appalled by what they see/hear, eg. rapes in Congo, they want to help, they want those to end... the problem is the system (governments), they have things planned to keep Africa fucked up (sorry), mind games, secret services...
We have the UN in Congo via Monusco, spending more than a billion us $ a year and what they do? protect rebel chiefs in government or on the side of FDLR, protecting and escorting international journalists, all access even where no one dare to reach, NGOs receiving huuuge fundings, spending on themselves, and the multinationals getting their minerals out for mobile phones, computers...
Now you have Kagame, a guy who fought for his people, said to be used by US and UK gov, too bad for me, I lost my family member in Congo, that's war, what do you expect in wars? What is France, America doing right now in Libya, Afghanistan? done in Irak and way back in Nagasaki? aren't they the greatest country in the word after all?
We had a war, Rwanda invaded Congo, people died, I was shot at, I lost a family member. The war is finished but great reporters want to lock us in the war system, the war mind, make us hate Kagame who is doing tremendously well for his people instead of letting Congo people take care of their country they get locked into Kagame this Kagame that, while reports of rapes get the NGOs more funds, if you want to piss off a congolese guy in diaspora just pronounce the name of Kagame and nothing more, u'll get them hating
My idea is crazy but it's mine,and you, I don't think you are naive. especially with all the facts going around, although facts should be tangible, they just fly around online.
I love Congo and Africa, I've sacrificed more than I can afford, sad not many people want peace for us.
Peace and development.
I agree with Oliver.It's not being naive Tom it's just not looking at the facts.Why would NGOs want to stop their main source of income:saving Africa, without it, no more fancy job, no more expatriates status,no more "risky zone" stipend?Visit any of the "war zone" countries and you will see, highest cost is operational not towards beneficiaries! If it were really about ending human rights abuse, there is a serious management problem in all of them! These are the most expensive and inefficient organizations, decades later, same problems and same so called solutions! If it was about "saving Africa",it would be about results,not about sensational headlines.It would be about letting "victims" speak for themselves(and not just on fancy posters to raise money). Most importantly, it would be about the reality on the ground, not the one that is read from nice headquarter offices in NYC, Geneva, etc.
All that to say,the reality on the ground is not what Mr. Birrell is imagining(yes, imagining because I doubt he has been in Rwanda recently)!!It is a country that is taking it upon itself to rebuild, that has refused to be decided for by international organizations that are accountable to no one(except the most powerful nation). For proof:a. visit rwanda. b.let go of the entitlement to judge without knowledge. c.check this out http://business.blogs.cnn.com/category/future-cities/
THIS IS ASTONISHING. Congratulations to Ian Birrell for engaging with Kagame and being persistent with his questions.
Absolutely incredible.
well said stella, and another thing, this is proof of how clever our President is. The mileage he is going to get from this exchange will be incredible, and people will start asking questions about the Birellis of this world who just criticize but offer no solutions, who point fingers but never look at the real issues...check out the papers tomorrow morning people and see where this goes..
H.E. P.Kagame is doing a greta job and i wish everyone had a chance to sit down and have a chat with him. I dont think there is a person more committed to his country and people than he is. And so when we have someone who challenges the status quo, shucks??!!! Remember THOMAS SANKARA!!!
Agreed. This is probably not what Tom wants to hear, but Kagame is right. And Aid is key because it enables people like Birrell to get published by arguing that if countries do not do what the NGO community tell them that Aid must be withdrawn. Birrell's view that HRW are objective is naive. Notice that his mind is closed. And this is about a country he clearly knows little about.
First of all, criticizing Kagame is by no means an attack on Africa. We need to get past the notion that whoever brings economic progress is good for his/her nation. If we go by that, then men like Stalin, who transformed Russia from a medieval nation to a world superpower, and Hitler, who built Germany from the horrors and destruction of WWI, should be idolized. Looking at economic growth, look at Egypt during Mubarak's reign and you will see astronomical growth, but there was great imbalance...why??? because the political atmosphere wasn't open enough to guarantee that everyone benefits from that added wealth.
So, we should look at the criticism and see whether it's legitimate or not because saying "so and so is good because he's bringing economic growth" has proven to not be good for Africa. Why repeat what history has shown us to be failure?
Secondly, NGOs act to fill a void that governments and individuals are unable to. If we, as Africans, are able to use them to cure our problems, they will not exist in their current form anymore...these are people with multiple skills who are able to adapt as well as you and I. So assuming that they want to keep you down and therefore you can't listen to their advice is shortchanging yourself...utilize them to your benefit then move on. Now, are there some with Caucasian paternalistic views towards the African race??? Yes, but, as in judo, we should be able to use their own bias against them for our benefit. If we can't, then it's our fault.
Thirdly, please don't compare Kagame to Sankara...clearly shows you know less about Sankara, though your idolization is to be admired. This is another discussion in its own, so I won't say more.
Lastly, Rwanda needs to look at NGOs as partners and address their criticism with valid points. Saying everyone who dares speak against the regime and its president is "out of touch with Rwanda and Rwandans" does not address any of the problematic issues. If you tell me that I'm not a professional photographer because you see me using a point and shoot camera, I won't just point out your being out of touch with photography, I will tell you why I chose to use that particular camera. Might be its features, need for subtlety, etc. Same with Kigali, they need to say, for example, that the tabloids were banned because of A, B, and C. That the investigation into the murder of Rwisereka is ongoing, closed, or in some other phase. That Ingabire and other political prisoners are held because of plausible reasons.
Based on what I have observed, however, the reasons given by the Rwandan regime don't add up so they seek to attack and marginalize whoever dares raise questions about them. If this is what progress for Africa is, I don't want it and there are many who don't want it either. True progress will come from empowering the people and not hoodwinking them.
P.S. For those who are concerned, I am not affiliated with any aid organization.
For goodness' sake, there are plenty of places in Africa more in need of people's scrutinizing attention than Rwanda. If a country's moving forward in leaps and bounds -- then that's not where to focus one's magnifying glass to find all the fault one imagines. Surely such a nation is doing something right, and to continue to insist with increasing desperation that they're doing everything wrong is to betray the real motives behind one's criticism -- that such success serves to paint you in a bad light, perhaps because it is achieved in spite of not following your prescriptions as an expert on development; perhaps because it complicates the global agenda of the imperialistic masters many of these people actually work for; perhaps because you're an unreconstructed genocidaire (or a cheerleader thereof) and such success only serves to compound the injury of having been roundly defeated on the battlefield; perhaps because you are an eccentric muzungu keen for the frisson of being contrarian for contrarian's sake; the possibilities for people's motives, open and hidden, conscious and unconscious, go on.
So if you don't like the direction Rwanda is going in, Mutabazi -- fighting corruption, delivering services to the population, development, education, advancement, dignity, etc. -- then nobody's forcing you to go there. There's a plenitude of backward states on the continent for you to choose from and realize your heart's desire to be mired in poverty, backwardness and ignorance. Moving forward is not compulsory, you know. Stay back there if you'd really much prefer that. The pro-backward NGOs and destabilizers and masquerading as human-rights activists (more often than not doing the bidding of imperialist interests) will love you for it. In America you would be known as a House Negro.
Although i may not entirely agree with Kagame and his style of leadership, I also tend to agree with Oliver. I am doing a research on how the western press reported (or did not) the Congo conflict and Oliver's assertions come up especially with regard to the relationship between foreign media, foreign policy and aid organizations.
Its naive to compare situations in Egypt, Russia and elsewhere with Rwanda. Those nations had to prosper almost naturally because of endowment with natural resources. Here in Rwanda, we are talking about an effort by one man, due to strength of character and love for his country, to beat many odds, including threats from extremist killers lurking like blood thirsty vampires across the borders with support from powerful nations, and bring a nation destined for failure to its feet. No natural resources, no nothing to build on, just sheer character, using the little available to make the best.Kagame understands the problems of this country more than many people and whatever he does is for the good of the people and not for his own interests. He is not a politician, he is a CEO who is interested in seeing Rwanda inc. grow and prosper. Dont judge him using the political yardstick because you will be embarrassing yorself
I wish people would come to Rwanda, take a video for proof if you need to. Its just sad.
1 year ago, I may have given Ian some credit, but having moved to Rwanda in 2010, the western press really seems deluded to the facts on the ground, and determined to take a blank defence over anyone calling themselves a journalist - something that has sadly become a sheep's clothing for many wishing to abuse Media in the same way it was in 1994 and stir pain and anger amongst a recovering and growing new land.
People reading this exchange, I advise you to do your research. Find a friend, someone not linked with politics, who has visited Rwanda recently. - ask them, whats it like?
Paul Kagame has done so so so much for Rwanda, as in its incredible when you just look at photos from 17 years ago. I wish people like Ian would look at the bigger picture and research a bit more before making such strong judgment calls.
I think I understand what the president was saying when he said no 'moral right' - I mean, of course they have a legal right, but what he meant (and I thought explained), was they are not a blameless God with a 'moral right' to judge all beneath them, they are at fault for things too, and should be answerable to these. They should not be potrayed as unblemished judges who have a 'moral right' to condemn a nation that pulled itself from unbelievable hardship and has risen again to a promising future.
Rwanda is booming, and people are happy. It is a peaceful and safe nation. Sure, we still have room to grow, but who doesn't, the point is we are getting there...and we are doing it together.
let me just clarify my topline, I was a bit irritated and perhaps didnt phrase it right- what's 'sad' is that people make these opinions without having facts from the ground. Rwanda is beautiful.
Totally agree!
Oh, Peter, please step away from the usual tactics of the regime, buddy...you know nothing about me to call me a genocidaire, genocidaire cheerleader, or a house negro...ask around first, then you will know more about what I do and what I endured during the genocide. I have zero compassion for interahamwe, but you wouldn't believe this even if you were there with me the several times they pulled me to the side to kill me or the times we had to pay them to let me live...yeah, Peter, find out more before you start to accuse people, but then again I've been debating your likes enough not to take it personally.
Now, nowhere did I state that Rwanda is doing everything wrong...Economic progress is great, but it's effects are long-lasting when it's coupled with freedom. Accusing people of working for imperialists is laughable coming from a regime that was put in power and sustained by imperialist US and UK. If you want to distance yourself from imperialism, tell your regime to immediately cease accepting aid from these two nations. Otherwise you are the house niggers that eat in the massa's kitchen then go to the field niggers speaking evil of the massa. Don't talk bad about the West while you're still suckling on its tit, wean yourself first before you try to boast about how much you don't need its milk.
@dfd60ce6a95f11777251d82c5b6f04e9 , I have to jump in here and request that you refrain from ad hominem attacks. Constructive disagreement is more than welcome and quite encouraged in this space. However, if you make accusations like "House Negro" and "Genocidaire" I think it is crossing a line. Your comment will remain up, but I do reserve the right to remove future comments if they continue in this manner.Thank you for commenting, I appreciate it, but please maintain a civil level of discourse.Tom
Rwanda has natural resources, look at the mining exports reports and see for yourself. It is also no secret that Rwanda gets most of its natural resources from Congo.
It's actually normal to compare the situations in those countries because the one thing they have in common is a strong ruler at the top who doesn't respond well to critics, a stifled political environment, and a thriving economy. So, if Rwanda wants to tout its progress to the rest of the world, it should be ready for the scrutiny and comparisons that come with it.
Another thing we need to remind ourself is that Kagame is not perfect, and that his faults can be criticized. If you see a successful businessman who happens to be an alcoholic, it's best to show him how his drinking negatively impacts his life so he can improve himself. In Kagame we see many shortcomings that could be improved to make his accomplishments even more striking.
paul kagame never answers a question. he is trying to 'interview' Ian Birrell at the same time. That's just a trick that politicians use to precisely not answer questions.
This is a good point. I have travelled to Rwanda with a video camera and have visited throughout the country. There is no doubt that economic development and a sense of peace has been present post-genocide. More amazing was the kindness and the warmth of the Rwandans that I met. There is no debate that most people in this beautiful country want peace and would like to leave the past behind.
However, it is also without debate that we should always question people in power who challenge basic human rights and freedoms such as criticism and free press. Are we seriously debating with each other that it is okay for a President of any country to dismiss these essential building blocks of democracy simply because they are in power while economic growth has happened?
Bad things happen when good people are silenced. This is not a "little thing". And anyone who cannot be bothered with the little things cannot be trusted with the big things.
I am very happy to see the progress of Rwanda. Again, there is no debate from anyone wanting all humans to experience the fulfillment of basic human needs like food, shelter, clothing, security, education, etc. But these must be accomplished with a spirit of transparency and positive intention. Open and thoughtful public dialogue creates an atmosphere that drives innovation and problem-solving. When the freedom to publicly speak without fear is challenged, there is not enough economic growth in the world that can justify this abuse of power. In Rwanda or anywhere else in the world. And yes, I am referring to North America, Europe, and beyond.
Thanks given to this form where we have the freedom to express our views.
Apart from the content and opinions we could have on it: Its amazing, and good, that a President of a country has the guts to discuss in a "live and public" way like this.....
I think the Foreign Minister touched on a good point
when she wrote, 'polit rivals most welcome, ethnic
bigots n genocide ideologues: Rwa no go zone' . She seems to imply that Rwanda runs the risk of
another genocide and that the situation is still fragile. Personally, I
think that this is unlikely considering the devastating impact it had on the
country. Its implanted a vivid imprint on the minds of many that will not fade
easily. I guess it all boils down to whether you think there are limits to
freedom of speech but the argument that 'compared to Mugabe, Kagame is doing well...’
doesnt hold for me. We should expect the same from Rwanda as we do for any
country regardless of their history. Bring these 'bigots' out into the public
and show them up for what they are (like the BNP in Britain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iKfrY9l2kY).
Chirchir, thanks for sharing the subject of your research, i am writing a book on the negative impact of Aid to the developing world, and i would be highly interested in the product of your study please share it when you can, and fell free to request any data from me at tgatete@gmail.com
wowwwwww...Paul Kagame was owned. he made classical mistakes: one he reacted angrily. did he think Ian Birrell would get scared? two he thinks he is above criticism. does he think he is the koran? three he tweeted personally. bad for his image. Birrell on the other hand just made himself many enemies. the love people have for Kagame is very genuine.
Isn't that a sign of good will, a way to transparency?
Paul Kagame is not a follower, he is a leader, why not attempt something never done before? engaging personally as a head of state, not like those heads of states followed by millions on twitter and having automatic computerized responses and tweets?
Aren't we encouraged to be the best, extraordinary and different? Think outside the box?
Africa needs these kinds of changes, things have been going very wrong for too long in our motherland.
Give Africa a chance, give us breathing space, we've killed each other for too long.
Genocidaires don't exist -- a figment of our imagination? The FDLR -- a myth concocted by the Rwandan regime? House Negroes? Presumably you're familiar with American history and what the comment implies ... unless there was never a distinction between House and Field Negroes.
Why are you trying to shut down debate with claims of "ad hominem"? What have you got against discussion? What is your agenda? Getting all defensive and claiming "ad hominem" when criticized is the mark of coward who's trying to quash all criticism. The words "hypocrite" and "irony-challenged" immediately come to mind. (Let's see if we get censored for, ah, "ad hominem".)
Edouard, the proof is in the pudding. The risible thing about you is that you continuously talk as if you're in any position to point one the right direction. Kagame has the runs on the board, whereas you've probably never made a single run in your life -- probably out for a duck every time you've stepped up to the crease. Failures are in no position to give lectures on success.
"Thanks given to this form where we have the freedom to express our views."
Ha! I'm already being harassed w@f2a9fb21f22445f3db5ef683e1ec00f8 th the tool of "ad hominem" to silence dissent!
Here we have people with no runs on the board giving batting advice to somebody with a batting average of over a century! Ridiculousness on stilts!
What do you think of the laws in a number of European countries banning Holocaust denial? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? Or are some people (like Europeans) more equal than others? Because I don't hear the same voices criticizing European countries for having such laws -- and such laws over half a century after the event, whereas with Rwanda it hasn't been two decades yet! A double standard, methinks, betraying an unfortunate attitude one would have thought would have died with the last century.
Perhaps it was a clarifying question. Is Ian afraid to clarify?
No! It's a sign of oppression!
"All that said, I'm concerned that the severity of the government's oppression will only foment another war, in which case all the progress of the past 17 years will be for nothing."
A war against whom? An army of four wounded egos?
Tom -- I'd say don't feel the trolls. If someone is obviously not interested in respectful dialogue, everyone should just stop responding to them and they'll probably go away. When someone writes comments that assume the worst of everyone else it just reflects poorly on them. (To the many commenters who did provide good comments -- I'm not directing my comments at you.)(To the many commenters who did provide good comments -- I'm not directing my comments at you.)
Hypocrisy much? The slightest bit of criticism and these people are crying foul! If there wasn't so much at stake, if people hadn't gone through so much and worked so hard just for a little bit of dignity only to have weird people driven by a yearning for some sort of Schadenfreude -- it would just all be a ridiculous joke. But, alas, many, many lives are at stake. What is at stake is whether the poor and downtrodden will have an opportunity to hold their heads up high. The budding shoot of Rwanda is trying to be stamped down for weird, perhaps subconscious reasons.
Presumably calling someone "despotic" and "deluded" is "ad hominem" will receive the same sort of condemnation from you ... or is consistency a problem?
Regarding my original remarks, they were part of a speculative train of thought as to people's motives, given the strangeness and illogicality of their stance, and features prominently the qualifier "perhaps". It was not directed at a specific individual but to the various quarters from which such criticism comes. Do you have a better explanation for their behavior since it's so bizarre and ridiculous?
If some of this speculation hit the mark and got under your skin, then *perhaps* practice what you preach and take the criticism on the chin; rather than sniffling, provide arguments as to why such charges are wrong rather than smothering views you disagree with.
Oh, and look up the word "irony" in the dictionary before you seek to ban me from here. If you decide to go down that track, rest assured I'll find it a most amusing experience -- as I hope others will as well. ;)
First of all, by calling PK, a despot, IB has already a an idea of PK. And by answearing the question, PK would either confirmed that he's a despot or that's he 's human rights abuser.
The funny thing about the hole discussion about the human rights is that IB doesn't know or care about the reality of Rwanda or the underlying reason why the government does as it does. Let's take the case about the closed papers or the jailed journalists. The reason I particularly take this approach, it that I was there annd I also read the reports and articles about it. The human rights watch NGO's and the western papers reported that the Rwandan governement is jailing journali because thethe articles those journalists whrote. Noone talk about the conten
Funny, It seems that you don't know what oppression is, otherwire, you would not post that answear. Sad...
... Content og those articles. None of NGO's and I wonder why. On the other hand, how can you explain the paper like Focus is still working, although it criticise the government all the time? why none of thos NGOs mention that?
About the million dead in Congo, I actually have a cousin who were the at that time as a refugee, and he tells a different story.
Another thing I would like to comnt
Comment is the freendom of opposition. You know during the last National Dialog, Somebody called in and said the "he's sad that they din't finish the job in 1994". Knowing what happend, what would you have done diffrently than the govenment did, assuming of course that you know about "the yearly national Dialog"? Waht about the "forum of political parties" or the dialog of parties. None of NGO mention those instrument of freedom. I always wonder why reagional 8 non Rwanda) papers always have a diffrent vi ew than wester papers about Rwanda? are they also aftraid?
Edward, what you are does not matter, the way you think is what bothers me a lot. You always try to prove you are 'clean', a survivor of genocide, blah blah....If indeed you went through that experience, you would forever be grateful that this regime saved many people by stopping the genocide and went ahead to bring the country back on its feet. Rwanda is now respected in the whole continent. Rwandans are now proud to be Rwandans. The government is passionately and efficiently delivering services to its people, and this is all that matters. Coming from such a background, what would you give priority? to give people food to eat and means to prosper and improve their lives or 'freedoms' ( which pretty much grow naturally, cant be forced). Its like a boy who grows so tall in a short time and people start questioning why he has no beard. The fact that he has grown to the height of an adult does not make him a mature adult. Rwanda has attained rapid economic growth but there is no way you can engineer change of mentality in a short time. When a dog eats chicken once, it would be difficult to keep it off chasing every hen they see - it would take time of training. Same with Rwanda, people were turned into professional killers and would not hesitate to kill, if not restrained by law and discouraged so that over time they get over this habit. the media had turned into a tool for spreading hate and cheer leading for killings. This cant change overnight because the trend has been set. Analyzing Rwanda needs contextualization. Critics are simply getting ahead of themselves - putting the cart before the donkey, so to speak. We see things changing every day, politically, socially and economically. As you cry for lack of media freedom, there are reforms being made already but you dont even mention these. As you talk about political space, a lot is being done, and things are changing along with mentalities
I am with you all the way PDM!!! i did not hear Tom condemn Ian Birrel for calling a President deluded, yet we are on his page because of this. He did not condemn Armin Van Hengel who called the president stupid....he was calling the exchange great on twitter...typical of the attitude in the west towards Africa...you can kill each other for all we care, after all our people will get jobs as humanitarian workers...this is what kagame stands against, and that why he is hated so much by journos and 'humanitarian' organizations and 'Human rights' people.
he is no doubt a leader. but there is no point for him to express himself in anger. whenever u are angry just breathe in. in that discussion he failed to answer the questions. he actually sounded delusional and despotic. a bit of tact. he was owned. but nonetheless he is loved man. so loved the people are unable to tell the emperor when the clothes are off. Thank God for the Ian Birrell
I think the congratulations should be directed to Kagame for engaging and entertaining Birrell's questions. I will be amazed when obama, sarkozy, or cameron engage a journalist on twitter. Ian's form of questioning only gave kagame a higher profile and won him more supporters.
Edward, you always amuse me, always wanting to present yourself as a neutral commentator on your own country. The resources you are talking about, a few carrats of gold and deposits of coltan cant compare to wells of oil in those countries surely. And what is wrong with Rwandans buying minerals and other stuff from a neighbor and re-sell? Congolese pass through Rwanda as they do business because of security and stability, how is that wrong?
Kagame is not perfect, yes, he is of course human. Nobody says he should not be criticized, but are the criticisms within context or just personal hate against Kagame as a person? most of the criticism i see are personal
They are now in court, others have fled the country - the Ingabires of this world,
I would like to point out that the reason for this post was to track the original discussion and allow for people such as yourselves to comment on it. Thus far I have not said anything about Birrell or Kagame. I am equally uncomfortable with Birrell using deluded as I am with some of the claims made here, but I am focused on having a rich discussion here. I have no right to and make no such claim to speak for anyone but myself. What I can do is request that the discussions address the points made.
So, I am interested in knowing more about your claims. Specifically, I want to know why you think that journalists, aid workers and so on 'hate' President Kagame. What policies has he enacted that cause this hatred? How is that different than the way which Museveni, Kibaki, etc are treated?
What would be a criticism within context? Do you mind giving an example since you said he is not perfect?
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Eddy,
Rwanda was ravaged by war and genocide that left the country in dire strain, pain and poverty. But the country has bounced back and is making strides, especially in ensuring food security.
A STAFF WRITER who visited the country recently reveals reasons behind the country’s success story. Read on….The war in Rwanda and the genocide that followed caused enormous loss of lives and properties, shattered dreams and a sharp increase in poverty levels resulting in rise in percentage of families living below the poverty line from 53 per cent to 70 per cent between 1993 and 1997. Since then, the situation has been constantly improving.
But when the 1994 war ended, Rwanda has been on a steady to revamp the country’s economy and improve people’s livelihoods.
The secret behind this success story, says Captain Seba Kara of the Rwandan army while briefing a group of journalists who visited the country recently, was its timely decision to use the country’s army in full scale agriculture production now that the country was not at war.
He said the army was given the mandate to develop all idle land in the country to undertake large scale agriculture and livestock farming.
This, he says, has already started paying dividends as the country cannot boast of guaranteed food security while the road to eradicate poverty looks smoother than ever before.
According to Captain Kara, the Rwandan army was now self-sustaining in the provision of food and livestock products and had now started exporting some of the products to neighbouring countries.
“We are now exporting milk to Kenya and Malawi,” he said, adding that they were also exploring the Tanzania milk market.
Captain Kara said some of the food produced the army is used to assist communities with food deficit before excess food is exported.
What usual tactics, why do you always assume there is always something sinister about the govet of Rwanda. Your formed opinions that you continue to display here show how weak your arguments are Mutabazi. You always pretend to be someone with a non-biased view and Rwandan. You are doing nothing if not being an armchair critic. What have you done lately other than criticze.
A lot of people survived and are now working together to build the same country you are trying to tear down, why???
As I said before, we're here to discuss the exchange between Kagame and Birrell and not my personal achievements. I have never sought, nor will I seek help from the Rwandan gvt to support myself.
As for Kagame and the Rwandan government he heads, I will give them more respect when they stop relying on welfare from the nations you previously referred to as "imperialists." Actually, were you aware that part of my money goes to the Rwandan govt as part of $500+ million the US gives to Rwanda each year??? So, as I previously said, if you don't want my contribution, meager as it might be, please tell Kagame and the government to immediately cease accepting and refund those funds...till then you are not walking the talk.
Nyaruguru,
You have every right, moral or otherwise, to examine and critic my experiences before, during, and after the war.
I always assume something fishy is going on because somethings smells fishy:
1. Kayumba flees to South Africa, he's shot, then South Africa recalls its ambassador...is the SA ambassador back in RW yet???
2. Kayumba, Mushayidi, Karegeya, Ingabire, Rusesabagina, and a myriad others are accused of the grenades in Kigali...but the only evidence is some newly-captured so-called FDLR elements.
3. The response to the UN response was typical of a guilty party and not of a wrongly-accused nation. Why threaten to withdraw forces protecting helpless people???
4. New information about Rwanda targeting certain individuals in the UK.
Gotta go back to work will respond more later, but all these are grounds for suspicion.
@viewfromthecave:disqus Seems like the argument is continuing in the comment section (if indeed that is the real Kagame).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/16/my-twitterspat-with-paul-kagame
Seems to me to be a fake. The multiple use of 'wrong u r' appears to be mocking rather than serious. However, I will note it as I could be wrong. Thanks for the heads up!
Gahamanyi, you might need to take a second look at the figures of what you refer to as "a few carats and deposits of coltan." Govt plan is to put mineral ore exports at over $200 million per year. There is nothing wrong with Rwanda buying and selling from a neighbor, however, it becomes wrong when those minerals fund wars and rapes of innocent civilians. Want to know who is supported by those minerals??? The FDLR, which is really one of their few lifelines, and their main one.
You have indicated that "most of the criticism" you see against Kagame are personal, can you point out a few that you don't consider personal?
Which one was a clarifying question from Kagame???
The problem with the media, they always look for what would sale than what the truth is! Has anyone asked why those media groups were shut down? Was what they were doing true, was it meant for GOOD, or it was aimed at selling a story that was going to stir up people's hearts with anger, which could lead to more people dying? Kagame is a great President
that has brought development to Rwanda, that other countries dream about.
Oliver I don't know which African Reports you have been reading, all that western media reports about Africa and Asia is War, Hunger, Rape, child abuse... name it! Is that all that happens in Africa?
Africa has been represented badly that even African love to sleep on streets of America and Europe selling drugs, than sleep peacefully in their grass thatched houses!
Africa has the most fertile soil, water, but it's embracing that we actually complain when World Food Programme reduces the number of tones they provide to Africa!
Come-on Africans, we better do what is right, cultivate for our families, embrace peace or continue lamenting 'poor us' in the eyes of donors as the corrupt leader embezzle the funds! And our NGO are could doing the same; cry for donor assistance and buy luxury cars as the orphans continue to suffer!
In the end, it us! We started this by looking down on ourselves and believing that the wrong ways are the only ways to survive. The Image is already out there, each one of us has a role to play to restore the beauty and glory of Africa and the planet earth at large.
interesting to read. Although Kagame and crew do make some valid points, how much does the journalist really know about politics in Rwanda? many are weary of press freeedom, as it was freedom of the press that spurred on the genocide - pre-1994 western donors pushed for free press which led to extreeme hutu propaganda calling for violence - situations are always more complicated than they look, and I can see why a leader struggling to rebuild his country would get pissed off by some western journalist criticising him ; though the fact he replied and seemed personally angerd by the comments suggests he needs a thicker skin, cos people will always critcise african leaders, whatever they do.
The various comments here exhibit some shades of grey rather than just the black and white as seen by Birrell. I hope he reads them although he seems to have made up his mind already.
Tom, someway back you/someone asked if PK's human rights record was "clean". Is Obama's? Blair's? Juppe's? Does Birrell tweet abuse about them or in the West are we not required to comply with the same standards?
You also said:-
"Specifically, I want to know why you think that journalists, aid workers and so on 'hate' President Kagame. What
policies has he enacted that cause this hatred?"
Maybe you should ask the haters. Interesting you think their hatred has to be his fault. He refuses to be told what to do or what is best for Rwanda by outsiders.
Gahamanyi,
My experiences are mine and, as I pointed out previously, you have every right to examine and critique. However, it's issues like assassination of dissidents, clamping down on human rights, and imprisonment of opponents on weak charges that worry many people. If you are building a house, I would imagine you would want to make sure that the foundation, walls, roof, and every other facet is done in the right manner. Otherwise, your house will be doomed.
So, don't worry about my thinking, just look at the issues raised and see whether they are justified in raising them and why not.
I think you are deflecting the question. The point of this discussion is not to examine the human rights records of other leaders (the answer is absolutely no and I am the first to say that about any of those leaders), but to focus on Paul Kagame.
I apologize if my question inferred that such hatred was solely or largely due to Kagame. I asked because the statement was made and it was not answered.
What strikes me, so far, has been the fact that questions and substance continues to be avoided. We can continue back and forth about semantics and end up going nowhere. A few commentators here have tried, but many have taken a defensive posture. If my phrasing was poor, I apologize for that and hope to correct the error.
However, I hope that the questions I have posed can be answered.
The comments by "Gahamanyi Yakobo" have been flagged until further notice after I was contacted by someone claiming to be the actual person. I will look to determine if the name under the comments is legitimate as quickly as possible. I request people to verify via email in order to try to avoid such situations and hope to know the answer soon.
I am not sure that I understand you but since then Andrew Mwenda and Louise Mushikiwabo have explained the position very well. If you do not understand them (and it seems Birrell is not interested) then we can do no more.
I have read both of them. Can you clarify what you mean by "the position" explained by Mwenda and Mushikiwabo?
If you do not get the message from them then i cannot help you. It would take some time and i would not do as good a job as them. BTW Birrell has managed to work Rwanda into an anti-Aid piece today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1388201/Pakistan-Despite-UKs-noble-intentions-foreign-aid-does-solve-problems.html
It is undeniable that Aid has been used well by Rwanda where corruption is internationally acknowledged to be low. If you are not familar with the place you may be unaware of this. This is I suggest evidence of bias on the part of Birrell.
Dear Mutabazi
I can only imagine what you went through during the war. And I understand your suspicion towards the Rwandese government, however the above points that you make are unfounded at this time so lets not take them for gospel. Bickering and calling each other names is only going to further our embarrassment. The point that P.K has always tried to make is that the UN stood by as people where slaughtered and then evacuated the westerners before they abandoned the rest of our country. All the while most of the west denied that there was a genocide going on in Rwanda. Why should they have the right to question the government or any other Rwandese for that matter? They failed to do that when our departed kin needed them. And as for sucking on the western tit, do not forget that aid works both ways. We get medicine their cream of the crop gets the best jobs, don't you ever forget that. You say the USA and UK put this government in power however the people who fought, fell and stopped the genocide and the war where RPF, your fellow Rwandese, We should not be bullied just because we are still developing. Kagame has proven time and again that he is a better leader then most. The only reports the UN should be writing should be on how they let down the people of Rwanda, Iraq, etc. Nobody is saying you should come to Rwanda, after what you have been through, I cannot blame you. But do not fuel idle rumor and assumptions. For the best way to empower people is through education, unity, and facilities that improve quality of life. Rwanda is doing just fine for what she has been through. And thank you Tom for this blog.
Mutabazi
I cant help but notice you are wearing an army uniform in your profile pic. I hope you don't mind me asking but is It Rwandese or American? I also find your opinions to be a little harsh for someone who doesn't live in Rwanda. And since you claim to be an American don't you think that people are innocent until proven guilty. By the way being an American taxpayer doesn't give you license to throw unfounded accusations and demand aid refunds if we dont see things your way. Its not the American way.
what is wrong with tweeting. is that not a sign of transparency and progress?
This is information delivery at its best..
Thanks again Tom
Isn't that a sign of good will, a way to transparency? discussing live in public and personally responding to anyone interested in his country.
Are u joking ?
U say "whenever u are angry just breathe in" after I've just commented "Give Africa a chance, give us breathing space"... How do you want us to breathe in when you are taking all our breathing space? The same is done to Africans in the west, stressing us up to the level we cannot take it anymore we start acting crazy.. lol, really thats not a joke but sounds funny lol
i think he is being sarcastic
I would agree on some of your arguments and disagree on others.
One: It is true that it is not in the official interests of Western governments to see Africa developing substantially, because if it was, it would be for them difficult to have so much for so cheap from it. Working with corrupt governments that the West helps put and maintain in place gets them achieve what they want at the cheap.
Two. Corrupted and dictatorship regimes, such as Kagame's of Rwanda or Museveni's of Uganda, despite what the West has claimed until recently about them, continue to be their proxy agents. Using the resources they are provided with, they make the continent look like helpless. Consequently, they [the West] can treat it the way they want, while pretending at altruism.
Yes We Can
Goddamn I love this president
Are you pretending Kagame is a dictator or u detain proof about ur saying. This is a place u should post comment with proof, isnt it? So, you'd better explain to your readers why you claim that Kagame is a dictator.
I dont think he is as you claim about him.
The Man was a warrior, and Im just wondering what u expect from a war, he won to establish a relative to rwanda's inhabitants and a kind of honnor to his people.
I dont agree with what politicians, whoever he is, says. Most of them work for the interest of their respective countries, so does Kagame. This man brought peace and dignity to rwanda. Travelling with a rwandan passport is a honnor. Thats the point.
Why cant't u question what the western countries are doing in Libya?
When it comes to western countries, u got some special words to use inorder to describe and uphold their behavior, on the other side when it comes to african countries u got some different words to use. Thats not fair.
I do not agree entirely with Kagame as the president of Rwanda, cause this is a democracy, but the fact is that Kagame is the elected president of Rwanda and he deserves Respect.
I respect Ian as a Reporter, but I think this guy is not fair. I dt believe Ian could get this ease of chatting with for example David Cameron.
The fact is white people just dont just like african leaders who show them that they can run their own countries without their help. Thats why Kagame is facing critics from western countries.
what i don't understand is this....Rwanda is doing well thanks to it's government. Its recent history is one of the most tragic yet they are moving forward and thriving. So why is Kagame the African leader that is copping so much critisism. Considering what the country has been through it would be hard to expect a government to run perfectly, especially when so much of African politics is wrought with corruption and greed and filling the politicians pockets with money while the people they are suppose to be representing suffer and starve and die of treatable diseases. Whilst Kagame is engaging with the world, urging womens rights, creating a government that has representatives from all tribes, discourages tribalism and encourages Rwandanism, has a harsh stand against hate propaganda, has reunited the country, made it prosper, looks for solutions and is very open about it......etc etc.....why is he being set upon by all these people whose own countries governments are far from perfect. As far as African governments go Kagame is a saint. Attack Mugabe, that country has gone to shit yet he still manages to get huge percentage of votes.... look at Kenya, do you really believe the last election wasnt rigged...and what of the tribal violence that followed while the leaders sat on their hands and didn't speak up and denounce it...why why why is kagame the target of the West now when there is so much more going on in Africa, so much corruption and suffering...what about Somalia, Sudan. Kagame is not perfect, but he is one politician who is trying to do the best for his country and bring peace and prosperity to it. Go after the bad guys, not the "not quite perfect" guys. What would have become of Rwanda had kagame not taken over....maybe he has to rule with a slightly heavy hand but it is no where near the scale of other nations...why attack one of, if not THE best African leader instead of going after the real criminals that rule with an iron fist and cause endless suffering to their own people. Kagame is a genius, just because the west has decided freedom of the press is one of the most important things we have no right to try and shove it down rwanda's throat because while we watched a million people get slaughtered from the comfort of our living rooms, Kagame was there, his country was shattered, and if his version of freedom of the press means keeping a close eye on anything that could incite hatred and reignite ethnic tensions, then i thank God the world, and especially Rwanda, has Paul Kagame.
People from western countries need to understand that we trying to build our story ourselves!
Look at what France made in Ivory Coast! and after that the french media will dare to say that Ivory Coast is a poor country. Shame on you western leaders! And western people because they do all of their stupid actions in ur name.
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